April 24, 2009
Today at Bido, the domain Success.co.in sold for $292.Â It was Bido’s first Indian domain auction, and I think it went well.Â I was in the bidding, but stopped at $250.Â There was a lot of bidding in the last few minutes, and the domain was sold to Adams Consulting.Â Congratulations to both the buyer and the seller!
I was in the chat room and there was a large, fun, and raucous group of people.Â Below is the transcript from the chat – it’s well worth the read.Â Thanks to everyone who came out!
Hopefully Bido will do a .in auction soon – I know some good ones have been submitted.Â I am happy with how things went and look forward to many more Indian domain auctions on Bido.
Here’s the transcript:
[11:57] ripley: Hi
[11:57] tldagent: Hello all
[11:57] dejanlesi: hi all
[11:57] Art: hello dejanlesi
[11:57] dejanlesi: how is it going?
[11:58] Art: going well
Hello there Bido buddy! Bido is “kid friendly” so please respect your community. All we ask for is professionalism.
Introducing Bido’s PortfolioHelp: Domain Name Portfolio Brokerage and Monetization. Make more money than ever before with the same traffic.
Submit your domains to Bido, with Reserve Pricing or without: One word or two words “natural combinations” .net/.org/ccTLD’s (ex: Silver.Org, rarecoins.net, bankloans.de). We’re still interested in listing great .com domains as well.
Today’s special guest is Jeff Behrendt of INForum.in. Click here to view Jeff’s bio.
[11:58] Art: welcome Jeff
[11:58] Jeff Behrendt: Hello Art and everyone else!
[11:58] tldagent: ditto Jeff
[11:58] Jeff Behrendt: Hey tldagent – good luck with the auction!
[11:59] tldagent: ty
[11:59] KingSingh: whats up anyone home?
[11:59] Jeff Behrendt: Hi KingSingh!
[11:59] Art: we’re home alright
[11:59] KingSingh: hey jeff – anyone mods from inforum here?
[11:59] Jeff Behrendt: Ceres is – she’s also my wife
[12:00] tldagent: wow
[12:00] KingSingh: family biz eh
[12:00] tldagent: I wish my wife would get involved
[12:00] Art: hello KingSingh, Albert Tai, Ceres
[12:00] Jeff Behrendt: Yes
[12:00] KingSingh: so aution is started
[12:00] tldagent: congrats Jeff on th efamily business
[12:00] Art: Welcome Jeff of InForum.in
[12:00] Art: Thanks for being here, Jeff
[12:00] Jeff Behrendt: It’s a pleasure – thanks for the invite!
[12:01] Art: Shall we begin?
[12:01] Art: Jeff, when did you start domaining?
[12:01] Jeff Behrendt: Sure!
[12:01] Jeff Behrendt: It was a gradual process…
[12:01] Jeff Behrendt: I started on the web back in 2001 in SEO / Internet Marketing
[12:01] Jeff Behrendt: Through that, I realized the importance of domains.
[12:01] Art: I see
[12:01] Jeff Behrendt: I would often look for domains with specific characteristics
[12:02] Jeff Behrendt: such as exact match domains, or expired domains with pagerank, links and traffic…
[12:02] Jeff Behrendt: I didn’t realize that domaining existed back then though…
[12:02] Jeff Behrendt: I’ve been doing “pure” domaining for about 2 years now…
[12:02] Art: Jeff, how did you get into Indian domains specifically?
[12:03] Jeff Behrendt: When I decided to get serious about investing in domains, I didn’t have a big budget.
[12:03] Jeff Behrendt: I couldn’t afford a lot of good .com domains, so I tried investing in .net and .org domains.
[12:03] Jeff Behrendt: I didn’t make a lot of money in those, so I looked around for other opportunities.
[12:04] Jeff Behrendt: I found cctlds were great – because they were cheaper, and because end users really buy them.
[12:04] Art: Do you buy domains other than .in?
[12:04] Jeff Behrendt: I decided to invest in .ca, .co.uk and .in and this has ended up working really well
[12:04] dejanlesi: i have a question for you guys.. i have a hack: s-k.in (skin) what do you think about it?
[12:04] Jeff Behrendt: .ca – I live in Canada and know the marekt well
[12:04] Art: welcome, theoretical, tintin_13, gentlesavage, protuberance
[12:05] KingSingh: Jeff – why did you decide to go with .in and not co.in?
[12:05] Jeff Behrendt: Recognize several forum memers
[12:05] Jeff Behrendt: .in is really a shorthand for both – I do invest in both
[12:05] Jeff Behrendt: .in seems to be doing better in the aftermarket, .co.in is popular among endusers as it’s the traditional extension
[12:06] ripley: Jeff, what is the main difference in .co.in vs .in — which do you prefer to invest in and why?
[12:06] ripley: How can you explain the discrepancy; if endusers mostly use .co.in, why would .in be doing better in the aftermarket? domainer-driven sales?
[12:06] Jeff Behrendt: Pluses and minuses of each…
[12:06] Ty_: @Jeff, Hi, could you tell us what the biggest ticket .in sales have been thus far?
[12:07] Jeff Behrendt: I generally prefer to buy .in, but strong one word .co.in are also good
[12:07] Jeff Behrendt: Poker.in – $60,000
[12:07] DomainVictor: what are the .in (and .co.in restrictions for non-natives?
[12:07] Jeff Behrendt: Mails.in – $24,000
[12:08] Jeff Behrendt: Searching.in – $22,000
[12:08] tldagent: I don’t believe there are any restrictions are there?
[12:08] Art: Jeff, what do you see in the future for Indian domains?
[12:08] Jeff Behrendt: No restrictions on ownership – anyone in the world can own
[12:08] Jeff Behrendt: I think it’s very positive obviously!
[12:08] KingSingh: Jeff – What registrar do you use to purchase .in’s?
[12:08] Jeff Behrendt: It will take some time – it’s like the early .com days
[12:08] DomainVictor: what about URDP or WIPO? ANy differences in TM restrictions and rulings? More of less lax than gTLDs? Same?
[12:09] Jeff Behrendt: I purchase .in domains at Mitsu.in normally – best rates and domainer friendly
[12:09] KingSingh: yep agreed jeff – great rates and exceptional service
[12:09] Jeff Behrendt: There’s an INDRP – similar to UDRP
[12:09] theoretical: Name.com isn’t bad either
[12:09] tldagent: name.com OK
[12:09] tldagent: I used to use GoodLuckDomain
[12:10] Jeff Behrendt: I think under Indian law, trademarks are accorded much better protection than in US/ UK
[12:10] DomainVictor: run into and INDRP cases yet?
[12:10] tldagent: stay away from that one
[12:10] Jeff Behrendt: Name.com is good too
[12:10] Art: Welcome Ty_, eklypse, SAnon, briang959
[12:10] Jeff Behrendt: Full house
[12:10] Art: yes, great turnout
[12:10] Bido: It’s amazing to see all these new faces on here. Welcome!
[12:10] Ty_: @Jeff How does ASCII.in compare with IDN.in and even IDN.IDN Indian language names for the long term iyo?
[12:11] Jeff Behrendt: There is no IDN.in yet unfortunately
[12:11] Ty_: Thanks @Art
[12:11] briang959: Thanks Art! Glad to be back.
[12:11] Jeff Behrendt: I’ve talked to people at the registry and there don’t seem to be immediate plans for this
[12:11] Jeff Behrendt: Although in the long run they want to add it
[12:11] Art: Jeff, when did you start INForum.in?
[12:11] Jeff Behrendt: I haven’t heard any talk about idn.idn Indian language domains
[12:11] theoretical: http://www.inregistry.in/policies/dispute_resolution/dispute_decisions/ is a good place to look at trademark dispute decisions
[12:11] DomainVictor: I don’t see a big pent up demand for them. English is still the laguage of business and educations
[12:11] Ty_: Do you know the percentage of the polutation that writes in ACSII characters? I’;ve not been to India so don’t even know re: signage etc
[12:12] Jeff Behrendt: English is still the dominant language of education, business, law, etc in India
[12:12] Ty_: Ah – got there before me
[12:12] ZandyMan: Jeff, have you ever actually been to India?
[12:12] Jeff Behrendt: Actually, I bought INForum.in from the person who started it a bit over a year ago now
[12:12] KingSingh: i remeber that Jeff – you outbidded me
[12:12] Art: How long did the previous owner have it?
[12:12] tldagent: I forgot about that Jeff
[12:12] Jeff Behrendt: KingSingh
[12:13] KingSingh: but doing a mighty fine job – id have to say
[12:13] tldagent: btw, what did you end up paying for the forum, if you don’t mind
[12:13] DomainVictor: Jeff Behrendt, what is your plan for this domains if you win it? (Currently in the lead)
[12:13] Jeff Behrendt: It was started Jan 2007
[12:13] Jeff Behrendt: @DomainVictor – I don’t count my chickens before they’ve hatched
[12:14] DomainVictor: lol
[12:14] KingSingh: thats part of his ‘success’
[12:14] Jeff Behrendt: The forum has really taken off now – we get over 16,000 uniques per month
[12:14] DomainVictor: lol
[12:14] Art: Is it strictly a forum? Any plans for auctions, etc?
[12:14] theoretical: it’s a great resource.. though I’ve only lurked
[12:14] Jeff Behrendt: We’ve got a blog inforum.in/blog
[12:15] Jeff Behrendt: There are regular updates of domain sales on the blog as well as news items
[12:15] Jeff Behrendt: We’re going to be adding more, it just always seems to take longer than planned…
[12:15] tldagent: know how that goes Jeff
[12:16] theoretical: Yeah, you almost gave me a heart attack when you blogged about the sedo auctions of the geo domains I was going after!
[12:16] Jeff Behrendt:
[12:16] DomainVictor: Ahh. jeff can chat and bid up
[12:17] Art: Jeff, are you more of a buyer, seller, or holder of domains?
[12:17] theoretical: got them without any competition though.. yippee!
[12:17] Art: or all of the above?
[12:17] tldagent: @Jeff, how many domains do you have currently
[12:17] KingSingh: How many .in domains do you have in your portfolio ~ figure?
[12:17] Jeff Behrendt: I think it was Warren Buffet who said – our favorite holding period is forever – I tend to hold
[12:18] Art: I see
[12:18] Jeff Behrendt: I do sell over time, as I readjust my portfolio to different goals
[12:18] Jeff Behrendt: Not sure the exact number – probably about 1,000 .in / .co.in domains
[12:18] Art: Jeff, what type of domains do you actively seek to acquire?
[12:18] adsenser: jeff, how much you ll appraise MetroRail.in ?
[12:19] Jeff Behrendt: Cheap domains
[12:19] theoretical: lol
[12:19] Jeff Behrendt: I also develop domains, so I tend to favor domains that if need be, I could develop myself
[12:19] KingSingh: what type of sites do you develop Jeff?
[12:19] Jeff Behrendt: At this point, I mostly buy cctlds – rarely do I buy .com any more
[12:19] KingSingh: affiliates primarily?
[12:20] Art: hi adsenser, zap
[12:20] Jeff Behrendt: @KingSing yes
[12:20] Jeff Behrendt: @adsenser – pm me on the forum re the appraisal
[12:20] adsenser: Art, hello
[12:20] adsenser: Jeff Behrendt, sure
[12:20] KingSingh: i run a small Indian Movie portal – www.interval.in (shameless plug) – and have been using Komli for ads – do you suggest any other affiliate management companies targeted to Indians
[12:21] zap: hello
[12:21] Jeff Behrendt: I’ve been to interval.in – nice site!
[12:22] KingSingh: if you like Bollywood Movies – look no further Jeff
[12:22] Jeff Behrendt: We’ve got a thread sticky’d on the forum with all the various Indian affiliate companies we know about
[12:22] KingSingh: alright i’ll check it out – thanks Jeff!
[12:23] Art: Jeff, besides .in, what other ccTLDs do you think have the best growth potential at the moment?
[12:23] Jeff Behrendt: I’ve done well with .co.uk – there is serious end user demand there
[12:23] adsenser: Jeff Behrendt, PM sent at inforum.in
[12:24] Jeff Behrendt: Thanks adsense – will get back to you soon.
[12:24] theoretical: what are your thoughts about the indrp cases lately. Have they been handled properly or is there still room for improvement? How do you protect yourself against indrp’s?
[12:24] Jeff Behrendt: There’s room for improvement
[12:25] Jeff Behrendt: If a brand is really well known in India, it’s almost guaranteed that they will win a case
[12:25] theoretical: it seems like domain owners always lose
[12:25] Jeff Behrendt: I wouldn’t park any valuable India domain – it’s too risky – put up a minisite instead
[12:26] Jeff Behrendt: A lot of the cases are all from one company – Pantaloon
[12:26] theoretical: and ITC
[12:26] Jeff Behrendt: They seem to have missed the initial registration period and are now going after all their brands
[12:27] Jeff Behrendt: It shows that companies are starting to see the value in Indian domains
[12:28] Jeff Behrendt: There’s no appeal process to the INDRP, which is unfortunate if a mistake is made
[12:29] ZandyMan: Jeff, do you think 3 letter .ins will ever approach the value of 3 letter .coms?
[12:29] Art: Jeff, any interest in ccTLDs in the countries surrounding India?
[12:30] Jeff Behrendt: @ZandyMan – I think LLL.in will do well – probably better than lll.net in the long run
[12:31] Jeff Behrendt: But I can’t see it approaching the value of lll.com, just because the pool of .com buyers is so much largers
[12:31] Jeff Behrendt: @Art – no, I’ve really had to stick to just 3 cctlds because of the time and money involved in investing
[12:31] Jeff Behrendt: I do own a few .ph domains, I think those will do well also
[12:31] Adams Consulting: Jeff, I agree. There is too much confusion between .net and .com, I wouldn’t brand a .net ever. ccTLDs don’t suffer from the same confusion.
[12:32] Jeff Behrendt: Thanks Adams Consulting!
[12:32] Art: Hello Adams Consulting, exdon, Shaj, Quasar
[12:33] Adams Consulting: Hi, Art.
[12:33] Jeff Behrendt: Welcome everyone!
[12:33] Jeff Behrendt: Thanks for coming!
[12:34] Art: All, please feel free to ask Jeff any questions
[12:34] Art: Jeff, apparently you are a popular guy!
[12:34] Adams Consulting: Jeff, I came in a little late, is SUCCESS.CO.IN yours?
[12:35] Jeff Behrendt: No
[12:35] exdon: Hi, Art.
[12:35] Jeff Behrendt: It belongs to a member of our forum
[12:35] Adams Consulting: Did you lead them to Bido?
[12:35] tldagent: in a round about way
[12:35] tldagent: yes
[12:35] Jeff Behrendt: It’s tldagents
[12:35] tldagent: newsletters
[12:35] exdon: I just joined, so perhaps you may have been asked before, what is the difference between .in and .co.in?
[12:36] Jeff Behrendt: .co.in is the traditional Indian extension – in 2005 .in was introduced
[12:37] exdon: so then, .co.in is preferred and more valuable?
[12:37] Jeff Behrendt: In the aftermarket, .in generally does better
[12:37] tldagent: To end users, yes to domainers and speculators not necessarily
[12:37] exdon: is this due to the likely domain hack element to it?
[12:38] Jeff Behrendt: .co.in seems to get more type in traffic than .in
[12:38] Jeff Behrendt: I haven’t seen most hacks selling well
[12:38] Jeff Behrendt: Strong commercially oriented keywords work best
[12:38] Adams Consulting: For keywords, both will have value. For brand names, .co.uk is probably preferred.
[12:39] Adams Consulting: I mean co.in
[12:39] Art: Jeff, what percentage of your portfolio is .in, .co.in?
[12:39] Jeff Behrendt: I did a post of all the pluses and minuses http://inforum.in/blog/2008/10/11/in-vs-coin/
[12:39] Jeff Behrendt: I’d say about 1/2 / 1/2 .in / .co.in
[12:39] theoretical: have you tried marketing/branding .in’s outside of india? Any troubles with any specific search engines not ranking you outside india?
[12:39] Bido: 2 minutes offer: Place the next bid, get a 5$ Subway coupon, compliments of Art of Bido
[12:39] Jeff Behrendt: .co.in are still fairly easy to find good ones to hand register
[12:40] Jeff Behrendt: Yummy Subway
[12:40] Art: am I a nice guy or what?
[12:40] theoretical: that’s like a free footlong!
[12:40] Art: eat fresh
[12:40] Jeff Behrendt: I’ve seen a few websites using .in targeting an international audience
[12:40] Adams Consulting: Very nice, Art.
[12:40] tldagent: took the words right out of my mouth
[12:40] Jeff Behrendt:
[12:40] dejanlesi: good .in are also still to be hand regged..
[12:40] Jeff Behrendt: Tldagent
[12:41] zap: is that subwaycoupon.com or .in
[12:41] Jeff Behrendt: @dejanlesi – yes, but it’s harder – people have been extensively registering these over the last year
[12:41] tldagent: lol
[12:41] dejanlesi: i got a few in the last days.. but i think they are a longterm investment..
[12:41] exdon: is the Indian TLD more widely used than .com in India?
[12:41] Bido: 60 seconds left on the Subway offer..
[12:41] dejanlesi: i got like NewYorkTravel.in and HawaiiTravel.in
[12:42] Jeff Behrendt: Yes, I think Indian domains are a long term investment
[12:42] Art: welcome, AlexIn
[12:42] Jeff Behrendt: If you’re looking for a quick flip, it’s not the market to be in
[12:42] dejanlesi: and i am looking at few great keywords.. but i dont know if i should reg them..
[12:42] Jeff Behrendt: A lot do get good type in traffic, but the pay per click is still low
[12:42] Adams Consulting: Art, are you testing a new timed offer feature? Pretty neat.
[12:42] Bido: 10 seconds..
[12:42] dejanlesi: Jeff in how much do you think the investment would pay off?
[12:42] tldagent: someone bid loll
[12:42] adsenser: .in is too easy to remember
[12:42] Jeff Behrendt: @zap
[12:42] tldagent: don’t let that footlong get away
[12:42] Bido: Expired!
[12:42] theoretical: oh the humanity!
[12:43] Art: yeah, I like it, Adams Consulting
[12:43] Art: I don’t wanna buy too many lunches though!
[12:43] Jeff Behrendt: Most registrars have a special on right now – it’s around $4 to register – so if it’s not a TM, I’d take the chance
[12:43] Sahar: Art, I’m telling Jarred you’re stealing is trademark offering. He is the only one giving Subway coupons on here.
[12:43] theoretical: yeah, that’s saved me a boat load of money!
[12:44] Art: uh oh!
[12:44] Sahar: Art, you need to find your own niche
[12:44] OzDomainer: Hi All
[12:44] Art: what about Quiznos?
[12:44] Sahar: OzDomainer, howdy
[12:44] Art: hi Oz
[12:44] adsenser: I remember i registered a .in domain 2 years back for $29 approx
[12:44] Jeff Behrendt: Hi Ozdomainer!
[12:44] Sahar: Art, maybe.. not a bad idea. Do they offer footlongs?
[12:45] zap: looks like it stalled at $270
[12:45] Adams Consulting: Jeff, do you know what the actual registrar price is for .in and .co.in?
[12:45] Art: Not sure. Let me look into that.
[12:45] OzDomainer: good to see the .co.in ccTLD getting some attention
[12:45] Jeff Behrendt: Before the special, registry wholesale price is Rs500 for .in and Rs250 for .co.in
[12:46] Jeff Behrendt: So about $10 and $5
[12:46] OzDomainer: Hey there Ceres
[12:46] gentlesavage: and another thing, I can’t stand australian accents.
[12:46] gentlesavage: Oh, hey ozdomainer.
[12:46] Jeff Behrendt:
[12:46] OzDomainer: Guday Mate!!!
[12:46] Jeff Behrendt: It’s the UK accents that are hard to understand
[12:46] Ceres: Hello Ed, hello everyone
[12:46] Adams Consulting: Also, are the prices regulated, like .COM and .NET, which are going up the max amount allowed each year for the last two years.
[12:47] Jeff Behrendt: @Adams Consultion – I haven’t seen a change since it started. It seems once a year the Registry runs a special
[12:48] OzDomainer: Does success.co.in have a reserve?
[12:48] Jeff Behrendt: I think the registry wants as many names as possible registered, so I don’t think prices will change
[12:48] Jeff Behrendt: No reserve – pure adrenaline
[12:48] theoretical: any news of a drop service for .in’s?
[12:48] OzDomainer: cool
[12:48] Jeff Behrendt: My information is that they will be changing how drop occur in the near future
[12:48] Jeff Behrendt: I don’t know the details – trying to find out more
[12:49] theoretical: how near?
[12:49] Jeff Behrendt: I’m trying to find that out too…
[12:49] Art: Jeff, what are your thoughts on the domain name Success.co.in? Will the winner of today’s auction find success with it?
[12:50] OzDomainer: this is a name in need of development and if done correctly coud be great buy
[12:50] Jeff Behrendt: I like the name very much. Powerful one word term with a very positive connotation
[12:50] Art: perhaps a financial firm or investment firm could find use?
[12:51] Art: motivational speaker is a possibility
[12:51] OzDomainer: has anyone else here submitted any co.in or .in names for auction at Bido?
[12:51] tldagent: Success could be used for nearly anything
[12:51] tldagent: yes
[12:51] theoretical: what tools do you use to evaluation prices/investments in .ins?
[12:51] Jeff Behrendt: The Google Adwords tool is great
[12:51] Adams Consulting: Jeff, what would you value SUCCESS.CO.IN at?
[12:52] Jeff Behrendt: https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal
[12:52] Jeff Behrendt: Gives you the search volume of a term in India
[12:53] Jeff Behrendt: Also, search google.co.in and click “pages from India” to see how much the term is used
[12:53] tldagent: saved.in has been submitted once. possible good hack too
[12:53] theoretical: they changed the adword tool though – what about for valuations? do you find estibot or others to have reasonable figures at all?
[12:53] Jeff Behrendt: @Adams Consulting – I’m bidding on it right now, so don’t want to value
[12:53] OzDomainer: me to
[12:53] Sahar: Jeff Behrendt, that’s the right answer
[12:54] Jeff Behrendt: Sahar
[12:54] Sahar: Transparency is really important in the industry, great to see you guys recognize it
[12:54] tldagent: that’s a god point Sahar
[12:54] OzDomainer: I submitted some .IN names a few days ago
[12:54] tldagent: transparency in everything
[12:54] OzDomainer: will see what happens
[12:55] Jeff Behrendt: Good luck OzDomainer – I know you’ve got some great domains!
[12:55] OzDomainer: cheers Jeff
[12:55] Jeff Behrendt: You are up late!
[12:55] OzDomainer: as always
[12:56] Jeff Behrendt: I like estibot for .com, not so much for Indian domains, because the data is mainly US
[12:56] Recordweb: how many people feel estibot is a reasonable way to value a domain name?
[12:56] Art: Jeff, will you be making any public appearances (trade shows, etc) in the near future?
[12:56] Jeff Behrendt: No public appearances, but I’ll be at TRAFFIC cctlds in June
[12:56] Recordweb: and hi Jeff and folks
[12:57] Jeff Behrendt: And I’ll do a podcast on OzDomainer soon too
[12:57] OzDomainer: sold 2 of my .co.uk domains yesterday and made enough to pay for all of my Indian registrations for the next 12 months so was happy
[12:57] Art: Hi Recordweb
[12:57] Jeff Behrendt: Hi Recordweb
[12:57] Jeff Behrendt: Congrats OzDomainer – to endusers?
[12:57] OzDomainer: yes
[12:57] Recordweb: congrats
[12:58] OzDomainer: there are many more end users in the game now
[12:58] OzDomainer: so I am finding anyway
[12:58] Jeff Behrendt: That’s what gives domains their *real* value – end user money coming in
[12:59] OzDomainer: for sure
[12:59] Sahar: Now you guys bid? You could have put that bidd before and enjoy a sandwich. Now you bid and stay hungry
[12:59] Jeff Behrendt: Some heated last minute bidding!
[12:59] Jeff Behrendt: Sahar
[12:59] Art: yes indeed
[12:59] Art: Jeff, how may the viewers get in contact with you?
[12:59] Sahar: I’m telling you, people are jsut not hungry here Art. Living the high life!
[13:00] Art: I guess not
[13:00] theoretical: we want quizno’s!
[13:00] Recordweb: I’m living the low life. But it’s where I live
[13:00] Recordweb: foot.com. I know the owner
[13:00] Recordweb: Here is to Success!!!!
[13:00] Bido: 1 minute offer: 5$ Quizno coupon, Compliments of Art of Bido
[13:01] Art: come on people!
[13:01] OzDomainer: looks like someone is going to get a bargain!!!
[13:01] theoretical: so tempting.. mmmm toasty!
[13:01] tldagent: yeah, if knoxlanding.com can sell for anything at all… I’d expect this to bring a bit more
[13:01] tldagent: lol
[13:01] Bido: 30 seconds left ..
[13:01] catchnames: what’s going on Peeps.
[13:01] theoretical: I said I wasn’t going to bid
[13:01] Bido: 10..
[13:02] Art: Hello Catchnames
[13:02] Bido: Expired offer
[13:02] catchnames: hello Art
[13:02] Jeff Behrendt: Last minute to bid…
[13:02] theoretical: darn you transparency!
[13:02] Recordweb: Suggestion, the counter should count the seconds down, not “Less then one minute”
[13:03] Jeff Behrendt: Congrats Adams Consulting!
[13:03] theoretical: grats!
[13:03] Art: Congrats to Adams Consulting
[13:03] Sahar: Congrats
[13:03] tldagent: congrats, great buy
[13:03] OzDomainer: well done
[13:03] Recordweb: nice job adams consulting. Stole a good name
[13:03] Art: Jeff, thank you very much for being here!
[13:03] catchnames: auction should be open for more than one day. also it was not advertised on namepros,domainstate
[13:03] Jeff Behrendt: Thanks you too Art!
[13:03] exdon: congrats Adams, well done Jeff
[13:03] Recordweb: shame on the owner of the name not to promote that name. I’d be putting out a press release if it was my name
[13:04] OzDomainer: what a nice buy
[13:04] Jeff Behrendt: @catchnames – promoted heavily on INForum
[13:04] Jeff Behrendt: Nice buy indeed
[13:04] Recordweb: of course, not saying that wasn’t done
[13:04] Art: great chat today, folks
[13:04] catchnames: I saw it at inforum @Jeff
[13:05] Bido: We’re back Monday with COUNTERPROOF.COM. Place your proxies early on this and others. From all of us here @ Bido, Have a great weekend!
[13:05] OzDomainer: cya all!
[13:05] Art: bye, OzDomainer
[13:05] tldagent: gl all take care.
[13:05] catchnames: .co.in gets decent traffic. Even domains like pollution.co.in gets traffic.So there is a portion of Indian population who types in .co.in naturally
[13:06] catchnames: I am not sure why aftermarket price of .co.in is not picking up
[13:06] catchnames: bye all
[13:08] Art: Gotta take care of the business of Bido. have a good weekend everyone!
April 20, 2009
A number of recent INDRP cases have raised concerns in the domaining community about loss of generic domains.Â To understand these decisions, it is important to understand how Indian law considers trademarks, particularly well known trademarks.Â While this blog post is a little bit technical I think anyone seriously invested in the Indian domain market should make sure they understand the basics.
One comment I hear a lot from domainers is that the domain is used for a completely different market than the one the trademark is for.Â This was particularly the case in the All.in decision, in which even though the word “all” is generic, and the domain owner was not using the domain for anything related to Pantaloon’s “aLL” brand (which offers plus size clothing), the domain was lost because the aLL brand is well known in India.
Indian trademark law has discarded what they term the “field of activity” test (since 1991 in Marage Studies V. Counter Feat Clothing Co. Ltd. (1991) FSR 145) in trademark infringement cases.Â In its place, there is a “real likelihood of confusion or deception among consumers and the resultant damage to the plaintiff” test.Â As a practical matter, this means that even if a domain is used to offer goods or services that are completely different than the trademarked term, the fact that a trademark is well known will normally be considered to cause confusion among consumers.Â This is because when consumers think of the term, they automatically think of the company with the trademark, simply because that company is so well known.
There is a long line of legal cases support this.Â In Sunder Parmanand Lalwani and Ors. V. Caltex (India) Ltd., AIR 1969 Bombay 24, the court stated that there was a danger of confusion between Caltex watches and Caltex petrol because “a large number of persons, if they see or hear about the mark ‘Caltex’ in connection with watches, would be led to think that the watches were in some way connected with [Caltex petrol].”
In Bata India Ltd. V. M/s. Pyare Lal & Co. Meerut City and Ors., AIR 1985 Allahabad 242, the shoe maker Bata claimed trademark infringement by a company marketing foam materials under the name Bata.Â The court stated:Â “How would the customers know that Bata were not producing foam?Â It is well known that the name represented makers of shoes and other analogous products, but a question would arise in the mind of the lay consumers whether Bata were also producing foam.Â Who is going to answer this question?Â Does an ordinary customer ask the seller as to whose product it is?Â The answer generally is in the negative.Â He buys a thing on the basis of his own impression.”
In Daimler Benz Aktiegesellschft and Anr. V. Hybo Hindustan, AIR 1994 Delhi 239, a company was prohibited from using the term “Benz” for a brand of underwear.Â The judge stated that “it will be a great perversion of the law … if a mark of the order of the “Mercedes Benz” … is humbled by indiscriminate colourable imitation by all or anyone.”Â The judge made clear that the term “Benz” could not be used by anyone for any product:Â “Such a mark is not up for grabs – not available to any person to apply upon anything.”
In Kiriloskar Diesel Recon (P) Ltd. V. Kirloskar Proprietary Ltd., AIR 1996 Bombay 149, the court again made this clear and found that when a trading name is a household word, one can’t use a similar or identical brand even for remotely connected goods or services, as these are likely to be presumed by consumers to be part of the activites of the well known brand.
The Supreme Court of India has even weighed in on this issues in Mahendra & Mahendra Paper Mills Ltd. V. Mahindra Mahindra Ltd. 2002 (2) SCC 147 where the court stated:
whether there is a likelihood of deception or confusion arising is a matter for decision by the court, and no witness is entitled to say whether the mark is likely to deceive or to cause confusion;Â that all factors which are likely to create or allay deception or confusion must be considered in combination;Â that broadly speaking, factors creating confusion would be, for example, the nature of the market itself, the class of customers, the extent of the reputation, the trade channels, the existence of any connection in the course of trade, and others.
All in all, the law in India is very clear that well known trademarks enjoy very extensive protection under Indian law.Â Domainers need to be wary of this, and to be particularly cautious of trademarks when registering Indian domains.
Disclaimer: Legal Information is Not Legal Advice
This article has provided information about the law designed to help readers better understand the legal issues surrounding domaining in India. But legal information is not the same as legal advice â€” the application of law to an individualâ€™s specific circumstances. Although I have conducted research to better ensure that this information is accurate and useful, I insist that you consult a lawyer if you want professional assurance that this information, and your interpretation of it, is accurate. To clarify further, you may not rely upon this information as legal advice, nor as a recommendation or endorsement of any particular legal understanding, and you should instead regard this article as intended for entertainment purposes only.
February 2, 2009
There are still a large number of LLL.in available for hand registration – 1,325 as of around noon Eastern today.Â A member of our forums, CNN, has kindly posted a list of which ones are available here.
We have an entire forum dedicated to discussing LLL.in and LLL.co.in, and you can find answers to your questions about these short domains.Â We also keep track of all reported sales of LLL.in for more than $100 which will help you evaluate the market.
January 5, 2009
In India, people speak hundreds of languages.Â Hindi has the largest number of native speakers, and there are also a large number of people whose native language is Bengali or Telugu.Â So, what language Indian domains should you invest in?
In the foreseeable future, I believe that English is the answer.Â English is one of the two co-official languages of India (the other being Hindi).Â While only 250,000 people in India are native English speakers, about 90 million people speak English – more than in the United Kingdom.Â And it’s not just any 90 million people, it is generally the best educated and wealthiest people, the professionals, the businessmen and the government workers.Â These are the people who use the internet, and who buy on the internet.Â Most government, university and large businesses are run in English, and normally the university and business websites don’t even have local language translations.
Recent developments have confirmed the predominance of English in India.Â The Law Commission of India has rejected the use of Hindi in India’s courts.Â They did this on the basis that English is and should be the common language that all lawyers and courts use and that it is important to keep it this wayÂ The CEO of Rediff, a major Indian portal, has gone on record as stating that higher education in India, for example, is predominately in English and English is becoming an “aspirational” language in India.
There have been great pushes to use local languages in India.Â However, despite this, the use of local languages on the Indian web has remained minimal.Â A recent study showed that there were only 1,249 websites in India that use local languages.Â As well, although NIXI has been a great proponent of IDNs, to date IDNs have not been released for .in domains and they have no plans to release them in the near future.Â IDNs are essential to properly use Indian local languages.
From a domainer’s point of view, as after all bills can only be paid banking on what the reality is and not what the reality should be, virtually all of the reported sales of Indian domains are for English terms.
That being said, even native English speakers need to be careful.Â One thing to keep in mind is that Indian English is somewhat different than both British English and American English.Â There is also “Hinglish,” an interesting mixture of English and Hindi.
In the long run, all of the above is likely to change – but it will take many, many years.Â The growth of the internet in India will eventually depend on the use of local languages.Â IDNs will eventually be permitted in the .in extension.Â There is certainly nothing wrong with purchasing prime Hindi or Telugu domains, and I have a few in my portfolio.Â However, it’s important to realize that these domains are in fact a very long term investment.Â In the current environment, and the environment over the next few years, India will be using primarily English domain names.
December 1, 2008
Since the Indian domain space is so young, hand registering .in and .co.in domains is still a very viable and profitable strategy.Â If you are going to register a significant number of domains, every Rupee counts.Â It makes sense to find the cheapest registrar possible (as long as the service is good).
The registry charges registrars a wholesale rate of 500 Rs (approximately $9.92) for .in domains and 250 Rs (approximately $4.96) for .co.in and the other third level domains.
I’ve surveyed a number of Indian domain registrars.Â The cheapest registrar I’ve found is Mitsu.in – which charges 589 Rs (approximately $11.69) for .in domains and 319 Rs (approximately $6.33) for .co.in.Â Their reputation is that they have decent service.Â Also, unlike most registrars, Mitsu.in price their domains in Rupees rather than Dollars, so if the Rupee continues to fall against the Dollar, their prices will become even more attractive.
If you know of any cheaper Indian domain registrars, please drop a note in the comments.
November 22, 2008
About 6 months ago I made a list of about 500+ .co.in & .in domains that I was looking at registering.
I purchased about 100+ of the ones that I liked the best and left the rest for later or in this case other people.
One domain that I did not register was pvcpipes.in. A very good name, but I had others to deal with.
Well, checking back on it and others I see that quite a few of them have been registered by companies and NOT (as far as I can tell) by domainers.
The company that now owns pvcpipes.in is a manufacturer in India of you guessed it – PVC Pipes.
It is a trend that I think will get stronger as the Indian domain market gets more recognition from the Indian population.
What other choice do local Indian businesses have if the .com of their generic domain is gone?Â Hey, let’s get our own ccTLD instead.Â It will be a great deal cheaper and in most cases more relevant to people in India.
IMHO, the Indian market is where the .com market was 10 years ago.
If you do your research and look at the stats for strong keyword rich domains you WILL find some great unregistered domains today that someone or some company will want tomorrow or 6 months from now.
I am putting a great deal of time and money into this and I am confident that it will pay off over the next few years.
Shame I did not register pvcpipes.in, could of had a buyer.
PS. pvcpipes.co.in is still available
October 27, 2008
Since the buyout, premium LLL.in have done really well – which is not surprising, given the increasing adoption of .inÂ by endusers in India and the fact that these domains have premium letters.
However, the non-premium LLL.in have not fared too well.Â The for sale sections of the domain forums are full of people selling their LLL.in for bargain prices – often $5 or less.
Given the timing of the buyout, over the next few months there will be a lot of LLL.in coming up for renewal.Â Given a market price of $5 or less, a lot of people may decide that it is just not worth renewing their LLL.in.Â The buyout is in danger of ending.
What has happened?Â As member jag pointed out, the economic conditions at the time of the buyout were quite different.Â At that time, the registry had a special on .in registrations – and the retail price was in the $3 to $4 range.Â Now, retail pricing is at leastÂ $13.49.Â As well, the buyout occurred in much better economic times – the current financial crises had not yet occurred and people were generally very bullish.
I think that this situation illustrates well the problem with pattern domaining.Â While some LLL.in are good investments, others simply aren’t (at least at this point in time).Â As member trevor99 points out, there are lots of LLL.in that aren’t worth registering.Â IÂ think that this situation shows the importance of having a plan in investing – a careful choice of letter combinations can pay off well, while a poor choice can cause trouble.
What do you think will happen with LLL.in over the new few months?Â Join the discussion at INForumÂ - the home of the Indian domain industry.
October 20, 2008
Until now, INRegistryÂ has only allowed Indian domains to be registered for a maximum of 5 years at a time.Â This has just been changed – now, Indian domains can be registered for up to 10 years in advance.
This change makes a lot of sense and I applaud INRegistry for doing this, as it standardises its practices with most of the gTLDs.
Google is thought to look at for how long a domain is registered in ranking a website, so if you’ve got an important website, it may be worth adding a few years of registration on.Â Also, for any company larger than a mum and pop company, it normally makes sense to register your domain for as long as possible, to minimize chances of accidentally losing your domain by forgetting to renew.
October 11, 2008
Unlike most countries, there is not one definitive ccTLD in India.Â Canada has .ca, the United Kingdom has .co.uk, Australia has .com.au, but India has both .in and .co.in in widespread use.Â One of the most common questions people ask when starting to invest in Indian domain names is whether they should invest in .in domains or .co.in domains.
Here are a number of factors to take into account in making that decision:
1.Â .Co.inÂ is India’s originalÂ ccTLD.Â It is the extensionÂ that endusers in India are more familiar with and has a strong presence in consumers’ minds.
2.Â There are many domains for which the .in version is registered, but not the .co.in – it is rare to find the reverse situation.Â From what I’ve seen though, this is mainly the result of purchases by domainers.
3.Â Both .in and .co.in domains receive type in traffic, which is a good sign of their viability.Â Generally, I’ve seen that a .co.in domain gets more type in traffic than the same .in domain, but others have reported the opposite.
4.Â .In is shorter – companies generally prefer to use shorter domain names.
5.Â If you look at reported sales, .in domains generallyÂ command higher prices.Â From what I’ve seen, they are also more liquid.
6.Â .Co.in is more likely to be used by a domestic Indian business – and there are still millions of them that do not have their own websites.Â On the other hand, international companies tend to use .in.
Right now, .in tends to be more popular with domainers, primarily because they believe that even though .co.in is better established, .in will become more popular and overtake .co.in.
I personally believe that India is large enough that both extensions will do well and be used extensively.Â In my opinion, both extensions are worth investing in, keeping in mind the slightly different uses and audiences of each one.
May 21, 2008
Some very positive new statistics about the use of the internet in India have been released.Â 12% or 49 million people are now connected to the internet, with about 35 million of them using the internet at least once per month.
Not surprisingly, the majority of internet users are young – 77% are between the ages of 19 to 35.Â Surprisingly, India’s net user demographics cuts evenly across socio-economic class.
What’s most interesting about these statistics is the language preference:Â “over 70% prefer to access the net in Indian languages, with English users at just 28%, down from 41% in 2007.”Â To me, this shows what I’ve been saying all along, which is that people prefer to access the internet in their native language, even if they know English.Â This bodes well for IDNs in India.